Frey
TF Full Timer
[M:175]
Posts: 135
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Post by Frey on Oct 18, 2006 9:31:39 GMT -6
until our judicial system stops convicting people just because and not based on evidence, then I am inclined to trust an ex-con more than average joe. What is the evidence on which you are basing this statement? Sure, our judicial system could use a good cleaning, but more convicted felons are actually guilty than not. Are you seriously more inclined to trust and ex-con more than say someone like me who has never had a criminal conviction? That is a really broad statement to make. |
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Post by King Rat on Oct 18, 2006 9:57:50 GMT -6
until our judicial system stops convicting people just because and not based on evidence, then I am inclined to trust an ex-con more than average joe. I'm inclined to believe (hope, maybe?) that your comment was made at the heat of the moment and doesn't really reflect your feelings. So I won't beat you up over it too much.  But, given some of your past comments defending light sentences for child molestors, maybe you really do mean it.  |
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Post by Pontotocmom on Oct 18, 2006 10:43:22 GMT -6
I don't know where all of you live but in Pontotoc County ex-cons vote every county election. Call Tracy and ask her. They can and do vote here. I've seen them with my own two eyes. I thought they lost "their rights" to vote and was told no they didn't. They take them out of the jails to give them the right. Ask Leo.
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Post by Pontotocmom on Oct 18, 2006 11:08:42 GMT -6
Here is a PS to my post:
It has to be a non-violent crime. But it can be a felony, like all the druggies can vote, but not if they committed assault.
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Frey
TF Full Timer
[M:175]
Posts: 135
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Post by Frey on Oct 18, 2006 11:32:12 GMT -6
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Post by granny2young on Oct 18, 2006 12:01:24 GMT -6
When you work in the judicial system as I have I tend to think you would have the same feelings. The man who was sentenced to 60 years in prison based on the word of a 6 yr old child, who had been coherced by a dad, step mom and DHS worker for months. No evidence that anything at all happened. The child's own mother and grandmother said the child was making it and it was a ploy for the ex to obtain custody. The man's life gone, forever, NO EVIDENCE.
The wrecker driver who got a call at night to pick up a car by the S.O. He picked up the car, was stopped a short time later by deputies who found dope in the towed car and arrested the tow truck driver for delivery of a controlled substance, or some crap like that. He pd out the butt for an atty who worked out a misdemenor plea for probation to make it go away, all agreed by the DA, but the judge didn't accept the plea and locked him up for 15 yrs. Didn't even let him call his family, took him right then and the stuff was in a towed car that he had not been inside of, just hooked to, at the request of the sheriff's office.
What about Brett Jones. Forced to have a public pretender who chose not to call any witnesses in his murder trial, not even the grandmother who was begging to testify to save her grandson, who was prepared to testify that the man attacked Brett and he had Alzhemiers and had a violent history. Not one witness cause the public pretender was too busy and didn't get pd to spend the day in court. Life in prison at the age of 15.
What about the man in TN who was recently exhonerated after 26 yrs in prison for a rape that he claimed he did not commit? The Innocent Project finally got him released based on DNA evidence not matching. Someone didn't do their homework, thus he was convicted on deputy's testimony and no evidence. He is free now, but 26 years too late.
What about the young boy in New Mexico that they executed, then have the real killer come forth and confess to the murder and clear the dead boy's name. Sure the real killer is behind bars now, but a young boy, a mother's son, a brother is dead based on circumstantial evidence and no evidence.
Prisons are full of guilty people, but there are a number of innocent who got shafted by the legal system, mostly because they did not have the money to hire adequate counsel. It should not be a requirement to be rich to be proven innocent. Law enforcement is so gung ho on solving a crime they tend to jump the gun and make arrest prematurely without any evidence, and go to many extremes to ensure a conviction. Do the research on your own.
I am not against prison and prison sentences, but I am against not helping a prisoner once there. I pay tax dollars to fund prisons, high tax dollars, and all I ask is that prisoners be rehabilitated, receive counseling and therapy, job skills training...anything to give them a boost up when they return to society instead of leaving them helpless and kicking them when they are down. Prisioners are still people. Just because they broke the law and committed a crime does not make them bad people forever, per say.
There is an electrician right here in Tupelo that I know very well, and am very close to. His ex wife got hooked on pain rx meds, and eventually he did too. His wife left him for another man and he lost it. He got really bad after that, and was so strung out for a while he couldn't function. Long story short, he robbed a few houses he was working in, taking any rx meds he could find. His ex wife told on him, he got caught, lost his job, and went to jail. One night in jail got his attn. He freaked out, he sought help; stayed 6 mths in detox, got some good counseling, hired a high priced atty and was sentenced to 2 yrs in prison. He thought it was the end of the world, but because of some people he knew at the 11th hr he was able to stay out of prison and spent 5 yrs on probation. To this day he is the best man you could ever meet. To meet him you would never know. He would give you the shirt off his back, literally, and he goes looking for people to help. That is what prisons should do, teach these men/women there is a better life out there if they want it.
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Post by King Rat on Oct 18, 2006 13:43:34 GMT -6
Tell me, granny, is there ANY offense you can imagine that should send a human being to prison? You seem, and I say SEEM, to be advocating a non-punishment approach to justice just because there have been cases of innocent persons convicted. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here. But, I guess, if someone did and the baby died that would be okay so long as the one who threw the baby out said he/she was sorry.
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Post by granny2young on Oct 18, 2006 14:02:36 GMT -6
no, no, you are missing the point all together. I am not advocating no punishment, I am advocating help (rehabilitation, counseling, therapy, education, job skills, etc.) for those imprisioned. Do you realize what happens to a man who is locked up, say at 18 yrs old and stays 30 years. He is 48 yrs old released back into an unforgiving society, jobless, homeless, no skills, no education, no job history, no help, no nothing and people wander why the reoccurence rate among criminals is so high.
If this man came out of prison at 48 with some job skills, at least a high school diploma, help with job placement/housing he might have a fighting chance to survive in this cruel world.
So many ex cons that I talk to really truely want to live a good clean lawful life but the world kicks them at every bend. Ex cons can't get a decent job, excons can't pass a background ck or credit ck to get decent housing, excons can't vote now...the majority of excons are not second class citizens, they are people just like you and me that screwed up and truely regret it and are trying very hard to make things right.
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Post by granny2young on Oct 18, 2006 14:05:18 GMT -6
and saying all that I am not lumping every excon in the same basket. I know there are some out there who could care less, but the majority are not. I would dare say 85=90% of released prisioners come out looking for a better life that they have dreamed of and loved for, but it doesn't exist, at least not around here. This is the land of no second chances. One strike and you are out for life, forever.
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Post by King Rat on Oct 18, 2006 14:48:22 GMT -6
This is indeed the land of second chances. So many criminals who should never, ever, see freedom again get that second, third, fourth chance. What if we did the following?
1) Offer everyone in prison classes toward a high school diploma.
2) Offer everyone in prison with a high school diploma a variety of job skills (i.e. trades, clerical, generally stuff our community colleges offer).
3) REQUIRE that an inmate gain a high school diploma before they are released. If they refuse to obtain it then never let them out.
4) Require inmates with sentences over three years to also receive a job skill before they are released.
This is not to mean that an inmate will be released as soon as they complete the courses but it would be reasonable to reduce their time SLIGHTLY.
That plan, if implimented in its entirity, is something I would support.
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Post by Pontotocmom on Oct 18, 2006 15:54:14 GMT -6
I know a young man, who liked to steal cars, he stole them in Florida and came to MS to visit his grandparents. A good long while went by and he was finally caught and sent to juvie, after he became an adult he was released and promptly stole another truck to come visiting. He was picked up by the Houston Sheriff's department, and put in jail. While in jail, he escaped to come to Pontotoc "get this" a lock-in at the skating rink. He was sentenced for 8 years and he DID have to get his high school diploma before he was released. After he was released he went to Alabama and was picked up by Florida because of broken probation so he has another 3 years added. from 13 years old to 30 he has been mostly in.
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Post by granny2young on Oct 18, 2006 19:28:30 GMT -6
This is indeed the land of second chances. So many criminals who should never, ever, see freedom again get that second, third, fourth chance. What if we did the following? 1) Offer everyone in prison classes toward a high school diploma. 2) Offer everyone in prison with a high school diploma a variety of job skills (i.e. trades, clerical, generally stuff our community colleges offer). 3) REQUIRE that an inmate gain a high school diploma before they are released. If they refuse to obtain it then never let them out. 4) Require inmates with sentences over three years to also receive a job skill before they are released. This is not to mean that an inmate will be released as soon as they complete the courses but it would be reasonable to reduce their time SLIGHTLY. That plan, if implimented in its entirity, is something I would support. That would be an awesome start, but MS would never, ever go for it, not in a million years, but I keep trying. As it stands right now prisioners cannot even get medical care, even for serious life-threatening illnesses. Just about 2 weeks ago a 48 yr old woman died here in a MS prison of pneumonia; something that treatment with antibiotics could have prevented, but she was denied care and died. The judicial system needs an overhaul from the bottom up. Mom, it sounds like the man you refer to is in that 20% or so that is not looking for a better life. For one of your stories of those kind I can show you 10 that do care and want a better life, but can't have it. I have never been an ex-con or been in serious trouble with the law personally, and don't really have any relatives that have but I have worked with enough families and hear what they go through. It's hell on the inside for these people, but it's even worse when they get out, sometimes unbearable and they can't handle it and I can understand why. You have to have a good credit ck to get an apartment, rent a house or buy a house; something an ex con cannot do. You have to have no criminal record to rent a house, get a job, or get a car. I can understand why the reoccurrence rate is so high. |
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