Thoroughfare bids

[rutrow]

I don't know if he vetoed it yet. The article was in a format more like a letter to the citizens of Tupelo. I don't think a report so elaborate such as this came from a reporter.

All kidding aside though, I am sure we will hear something soon about it.

[King Rat]

Didn't WTVA mention that ESI had helped the committee obtain the necessary easements at no charge, or less charge, or something to that effect?

I would think the best thing to do is simply ask Councilwoman Deas which firm to use since she obviously knows best for us all.

[Crimson]

Most easements come as no charge anyhow. At least for all the projects I've worked on. There was one property owner on all of Thomas Street that demanded we buy the property instead of giving us an easment.

An easement, afterall, isn't taking anyone's land away. All it does is give permission for roadway crews and utility trucks to be on that portion of land. On average the right-of-way is about 25 feet from the centerline of the road. On average a traffic lane is twelve feet wide. Of course r.o.w. is going to be wider for roads more than two lanes wide, such as Thomas street.

[TF Admin]

The mayor vetoed it Monday, and I just read a couple of articles at DJOurnal.com and the folowing really grabbed my attention:

"Major Thoroughfare Committee chairman Greg Pirkle suggested in a speech made to his group Monday evening that perhaps “greed for power” or “the need to pay off some political favor” played into the council’s vote.

“We will probably never know the real reason,” he said.

The experience has left many people angry. Martin said he and the other four members who voted against the committee have been verbally attacked and even threatened. And Pirkle said he was “crushed” and “hurt” by remarks made by council members. "

The Coffee Pot 5 were verbally attacked and threatened? If there is any truth to the threaten part then FILE CHARGES! FILE A POLICE REPORT! Nevermind the fact that you (THE COFFEE POT 5) are now serving as PUBLIC OFFICERS!

Verbal attacks are part of the job. If you cannot handle it then resign. This is what happens when you break the law by meeting privately eating cookies and milk and the public finds out...you get backlash. In short, you reap what you sow!

TF

[King Rat]

I think it was Councilman Heavner who said on WTVA a couple nights ago that the mayor has "no business" imposing himself into council business [by vetoing the council's decision].

I realize Tupelo has a weak-mayor system but if the mayor has veto power over council decisions then how in the world can his using that veto be a case of him failing to "mind his own business"?

Methinks some of Tupelo's leading men/women have ego problems.

[Crimson]

And lined pockets to go with them....

[TF Admin]

As a reminder, you can view last Tuesday's Council Meeting online where this issue came to the forefront. It's posted and ready for viewing.

TF

[TF Admin]

This is just ludicrous: www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=229868&pub=1&div=News

The council, yet again, has rejected the Thoroughfare Committee's decision. This is the EXACT reason the committee was formed, to eliminate the political dung from being sprayed onto a project that is vital for the growth of Tupelo. The politicians found a way to stick their nose in regardless.

It is official, this Council is WEAK, WEAK, WEAK! They care not for the growth and development of Tupelo, and certainly have no respect for the citizens that have volunteered to serve.

Now, they are upset because the committee destroyed the forms used in the grading and selection process. Two CITY engineers serve on the committee and since I'm a former employee of the City of Tupelo, so I understand why they did what they did. It will inevitably be used against them right or wrong.

I'm calling for a vote of "NO CONFIDENCE" on Thomas Bonds, and Bill Martin since they seem to be leading this charge. If anyone else needs to be added comment below.

TF

[Crimson]

I have a comment... but not for what you were hoping.

There is something political going on, yes. With the Thoroughfare committe. Someone's pockets have been lined. Some favor has been done or requested... or something. Something is up with that committee and they're getting busted. It has already been said that all the people calling with negative comments about the decision to give it to CC are close friends and family of committee members and ESI.

What reason would they have to destroy those papers other than to hide something? Documents like that are supposed to be retained for a certain amount of time and made available to the public aren't they?

Now, I'm being completely partial in this. Working at Cook Coggin isn't influencing my thoughts on this. Wether we get that contract or not I still have a job and I still get paid. No one is going to get laid off over it.

[TF Admin]

I am unsure if those documents must be retained, probably not as this is a committee assigned by the Council and does not act nor spend money on behalf of the City. The political situation for City Workers is very murky especialy right now. I worked for the City for 6 years, and after Neely came into office, the political atmosphere became cloudy, then rain, then stormy, and when I left it was on the fast track to "Hell in a Crap-Filled Handbasket!" I left in July of last year, and have kept close ties to some of my friends in different departments. Most people are not affected by the political crapslinging that has been going on, but I can imagine, if you are a City Employee working on a Council Appointed committee, in the current environment, you had better bet if the law allows it, shred everything, and say nothing. Let the committee spokesperson do ALL the talking.

Because one word, one slip of the tongue to the wrong person will get back to the Council and your job sits in the balance. How can this be, though? The Council does not handle employee matters, the mayor does that, right? Only until some deal must be struck, and that deal includes UNUSUAL and UNJUST pressure to force the employee to leave or if the employee beningly screws up it becomes "resign or we fire you, or we write your job out of the budget for next year!" That's how the game is played.

TF

[darkhorse]

OK Crimson. You've mentioned "lined pockets" repeatedly in your posts. Are you telling us that Cook Coggin, the engineering Goliath in N. Miss., is telling it's employees that the reason it didn't get the recommendation from the committee, is because they were paid off. Cook Coggin has stressed how small and struggling ESI is compared to them. But somehow they are able to buy a committee? Please!

Do you even know who is on this committee? The idea that anyone, even a firm as big and powerful as Cook Coggin could bribe Mr. Patterson is laughable. What could they possibly have to offer him?

[Crimson]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... calm down a little.

I used the phrase 'lined pockets' in a general sense. A bribe doesn't have to be money. And no, I'm not saying that's what people around the office are saying. I'm saying that because it's my opinion. I've been trying, this whole time, to look at this from the outside. Even if I didn't work for CC I would be lifting a brow and asking 'WTF is going on here?'.

Something isn't right. Someone got payed off somehow... wether that was with money, favors, services... something. SOMETHING is going on. You can't tell me you don't see it. You can't say that something isn't fishy here. Something is most definately fishy. I don't know which side cast out the bait, so to speak, but someone has. Why else would the committee destroy the paperwork for it so quickly? Are they hiding something? WTH is going on?

There's more going on here than any of us know... including ESI and Cook Coggin. You would be suprised how little talk there actually is about all this here in the office during the day while I'm here.

[darkhorse]

The "destroyed paperwork" was the individual grading sheets from the individual committee members. They were destroyed once the results were tallied and the detailed results are public. They were in the paper a couple of weeks ago. It's just like an election. The results are public, but you get to look and see who each person voted for. If every person's vote were public, how many people do you think would vote. Some of the members of this committee will be working with both firms, on this project and others, regardless of the outcome. They can't be expected to vote/score them honestly if they know each firm will find out how they scored them.

Mr. Martin was also quoted in the paper as saying he didn't understand why the committee cared so much which engineer got selected. What?! That's their job. Why does he care? Why would anybody care? Maybe he thinks they should flip a coin. Afterall, that is how he won the election.

[brimstone]

As a professional engineer and resident of Tupelo who is vaguely familiar with the MT program, I'm interested in the cost numbers between phase 2 and 3. This information is public record and following is a summary of the information provided by Mrs. Deas on Tuesday night:

Phase 2 (P2) ran from approximately 1996-2001 with Cook Coggins' fee being about 18%. Mrs. Deas was actually mistaken during the council meeting - the cost figures she provided were per linear foot, not square foot. It was stated the construction costs for P2 were about $430 per foot (or $2.27 million per mile) of new roadwork.

Phase 3 (P3) ran from 2001-2006 with ESI's fee being 9%. The construction costs for P3 came out to be roughly $290 per foot (or $1.53 million per mile) on projects very similar to those in P2.

Therefore, the design efficiency difference between P2 and P3 saved the city of Tupelo about $740,000 ($2.27m minus $1.53m) per mile during P3. This savings is even more astounding considering the cost of construction materials, labor, etc., has increased every year due to inflation and global supply/demand.

Here's another way to look at it -- the difference between the engineering fees for the phases comes out to 9% +/- (18% minus 9%). Since the costs of P2 were $740,000/mile higher than P3, that means Cook Coggins received for design engineering, on average, $740,000(0.09)=$67,000 per mile more compared to what ESI received for P3.

Certain members of the council seem to be hung up on $220k of engineering fees. Yet, if Cook Coggins gets the job, and the past performance of P2 is repeated, it will only take 3/10 of a mile before that $220,000 is absorbed into the higher construction cost. Considering each phase of the MTP is typically 10+ miles of roadwork, as a tax-paying citizen of Tupelo, I'd MUCH rather pay a slightly higher engineering fee and save millions of dollars during construction.