Muslim Workers Walk Off Job Over Prayers

[Sky]

So Rex, are you going to leave the board because we agree?

[zipzam]

wow, i see this has become a "prayer in school" debate. it's somewhat on topic so i'll continue with that thought if ok.

sky made a very good point in the post greg quoted. (didn't see a need to quote the whole thing again).

i had this same discussion on the main board i visit. well, it was really a discussion of "teaching the bible in school". imo, it should NOT be done.

why you ask?
simple... who teaches it? catholics believe in sprinkling, COC believe in dunking. both MAY be very upstanding christians but will throw their OWN interpretations into the class. as a parent of children, it's my job to take my kids to church and teach them about GOD,,, not some teacher.

that thread had referenced a high school football game. it was a basically methodist school. a local baptist preacher led the prayer before the game. during the prayer, he mentioned "non- dunked" would be headed to hell. (remember, i wasn't there, just repeating what was said. i'll try to find a link if possible). still, if this did not happen, it very well could happen. supposedly, at the end of his prayer, he mentioned he would set up a tub beside the concession stand for anyone that wanted to go to heaven.

also bear in mind the legal system. if we open the door for the bible to be taught in school, freedom of religion will eventually allow buddism, mormons, even satanism to be taught in school. people REALLY should think about what they really want when they are fighting for something.

seperation of church and state is a wonderful thing imo. i've got the right to pray to GOD anytime i want to. sometimes, i may have to do it silently. i really think GOD understands that.

[Sky]

seperation of church and state is a wonderful thing imo. i've got the right to pray to GOD anytime i want to. sometimes, i may have to do it silently. i really think GOD understands that

Yes it is!!! And, He certainly does.

[BillyBob]

zipzam said:

that thread had referenced a high school football game. it was a basically methodist school. a local baptist preacher led the prayer before the game. during the prayer, he mentioned "non- dunked" would be headed to hell. (remember, i wasn't there, just repeating what was said. i'll try to find a link if possible). still, if this did not happen, it very well could happen. supposedly, at the end of his prayer, he mentioned he would set up a tub beside the concession stand for anyone that wanted to go to heaven......

seperation of church and state is a wonderful thing imo. i've got the right to pray to GOD anytime i want to. sometimes, i may have to do it silently. i really think GOD understands that.

BB: As a Baptist, I find that rather hard to believe, unless this particular preacher was suffering from mental illness. Though I'm sure Sky would say that goes without saying for any of Baptist preacher.

And don't be so sure you have the right to pray anywhere you want to. Maybe 50 years ago, but not today..............................................

We see what Jefferson wrote on September 6, 1819 coming to pass: “The Constitution is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please” (“Thomas Jefferson,” America’s God and Country, William J. Federer, ed., Fame Publishing, Inc., 1996, p. 330).

[BillyBob]

In 1985, Chief Justice Warren E. Burger delivered an opinion of the court:


“There is an unbroken history of official acknowledgement by all three branches of government of the role of religion in American life ... The Constitution does not require a complete separation of church and state. It affirmatively mandates accommodation, not merely tolerance, of all religions and forbids hostility towards any” (ibid., p. 608).
Also in 1985, Chief Justice William Rehnquist, then an Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, rendered the Court's decision in Wallace v. Jefree:


“It is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of constitutional history. . . The establishment clause has been expressly freighted with Jefferson’s misleading metaphor for nearly forty years ... There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the framers intended to build a wall of separation [between church and state] ... The recent court decisions are in no way based on either the language or intent of the framers” (ibid., p. 608).

[BillyBob]

Sky said:

Gotta love the propaganda being spewed here.



BB wrote:"these days you hear of many companies and/or schools forbidding the wearing of crosses or having a Bible on your desk, or in your desk. "



Please name those schools and or companies please.

BB: www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80030,00.html
Atheist Group Challenges Alabama Governor's Bible Study

Monday, March 03, 2003

By Jonathan Serrie



MONTGOMERY, Ala. — Alabama Republican Gov. Bob Riley has incurred the wrath of ardent church-state separationists for offering early-morning bible study classes to his staff.

"He is a political panhandler for public piety," said Larry Darby, Alabama state director of American Atheists. "He's using the machinery of government to promote the concept that God is necessary in government. It's not."

Riley attended regular prayer meetings while serving as a representative in Congress. He said he can't understand why bringing the tradition to the Alabama governor's office is creating controversy.

"This country was set up on the principle that everyone had the right to worship as they saw fit," Riley said. "What the Constitution says is government should never forbid the practice of religion or interfere in the practice of religion."

Riley started offering Bible study classes shortly after taking office Jan. 20. A Southern Baptist, he holds classes with senior staff and Cabinet members each Tuesday morning. Other staff members hold their own Wednesday morning class. Both sessions take place before normal working hours and staffers say no state business is discussed.

"This is something that I think my Cabinet enjoys," Riley said. "It's something that means a lot to me. But it is strictly voluntary and will continue to be."

Last Wednesday's meeting was attended by 11 of Riley's 55 regular staff members. Participants say this is proof no one is being pressured to attend................
Even some of the plaintiffs in the monument case acknowledge there is nothing illegal about the governor holding voluntary Bible classes.

Legal or not, Darby insists religious study in the governor's office blurs the line separating church and state. But Riley and staff members say the U.S. Constitution protects the religious practices of all Americans, including those in government.

"How did we get to this point?" Gov. Riley asked rhetorically. "How did we get to the point that today it's controversial to come together at a Bible study?"

BB: I don't know. Ask Sky, because she says it doesn't happen. I thought we could pray anywhere and anytoime we wanted to? Is the Alabama Governors office Congress? Even if it was ( "Congress shall make no law"), Congress has their prayers also.

[granny2young]

Friday, March 11. 2005
Christian Professor fired over reading assignment

His crime? Assigning his class to read "In His Steps."

A University of Colorado professor has lost his teaching position because of his outspoken views and controversial personal beliefs—and it's not Ward Churchill.

Most Americans have no doubt heard of Churchill, the CU ethnic studies professor who compared the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to Nazis. But he still has his job.


Posted by Jeff Blogworthy in News at 00:24 | Comments (0) | Trackbacks (0)

www.jeffblogworthy.com/index.php?/archives/1066-Christian-Professor-fired-over-reading-assignment.html




***This is the professor that was fired because he assigned his class to read a christian-based book. The other guy that kept his job, said to his class that the VICTIMS of 9/11 deserved to die because of their greed.

[granny2young]

Teacher Fired for
Praying in Classroom

June 16 1998

New York (Reuters) -- A New York City schoolteacher has been fired for praying and practicing religion in an elementary school classroom, officials said Tuesday.

Mildred Rosario, who says she is a a born-again Christian, prayed with her sixth-grade class and told them about "Jesus, our Savior," a Board of Education spokesman said.

The parent of one of Rosario's students complained to the board, and she was fired last Friday after a hearing.

"She was fired because she was found to be in violation of the U.S. Constitution," board spokesman David Galarza said on Tuesday.

"She was teaching religion, and she was talking about Christianity and being born again," he said.

Rosario, speaking with reporters on Tuesday outside the school in the city's Bronx Borough, freely conceded that she talked to her 11-and 12-year-old students about her religion.

But the 43-year-old teacher said she believed she had a right to do so under the Constitution's first amendment protecting free speech.

"I talk about God," she said. "There's nothing wrong with that."

Norman Siegel, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, disagreed with her interpretation of her constitutional rights.

"The separation of church and state means you can't bring religion into the classroom and you can't bring prayer into the classroom, and she did both," he said.

"She doesn't have a first amendment right to proselytize in a classroom," he said.

Rosario was a substitute teacher who taught in the Bronx school for about a year, the board spokesman said.

Previously, she taught at three other schools, each for about a year, he said.

Rosario said the discussion began when she and the students were talking about a classmate who had drowned.

She told them he was "in heaven," told them about Christianity and led them in prayer, she said.


Some points from this article:

1) "She was fired because she was found to be in violation of the U.S. Constitution," board spokesman David Galarza said on Tuesday. But the 43-year-old teacher said she believed she had a right to do so under the Constitution's first amendment protecting free speech.

According to Sky, this is legal, so why was she fired? According to Sky, she did nothing wrong, because it is not illegal.

2) Norman Siegel, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, disagreed with her interpretation of her constitutional rights.

"The separation of church and state means you can't bring religion into the classroom and you can't bring prayer into the classroom, and she did both," he said.

hmmm, you can't bring prayer into the classroom. It is illegal, and I was called a liar for what this woman got fired over.

3) Rosario said the discussion began when she and the students were talking about a classmate who had drowned.

She told them he was "in heaven," told them about Christianity and led them in prayer, she said.

I would must rather a teacher tell my child this in this situation than someone like Sky telling her it doesn't exist.

You see, I could post article after article of people losing their jobs and being in legal trouble because they prayed in school, why? because I said it the first time, prayer in school has been deemed unconstitutional and is illegal.

[BillyBob]

Now, Granny, you know these things don't happen! You are just proving to be the liar Sky claims, making up stuff like this! ;D

[Sky]

People are so fond of quoting or using Jefferson as an example of Christanity and constitutional intent but know little about his personal religion.

Jefferson was from the Anglican (Catholic) Church of England but frequented the Unitarian Chruch.

Freedom of religion and the unique system of institutional religion it fostered were integral parts of the process of Becoming Americans. As Virginians responded to the appeal of evangelical faith and the tolerant rationalism of the Enlightenment, they grew away from the idea of a single authoritarian church protected by the state and toward the concept of religion disentangled from government.

The personal appeal of evangelical faith together with the ideals of the Enlightenment helped create an atmosphere in which this and other democratic ideals could flourish. In 1786 the Virginia Assembly enacted Thomas Jefferson's Statute for Religious Freedom. In 1791 the First Amendment to the Constitution stated that the federal government could not enact laws establishing religion or "prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

[Sky]

Bravo!!!

Teacher Fired for
Praying in Classroom

June 16 1998

New York (Reuters) -- A New York City schoolteacher has been fired for praying and practicing religion in an elementary school classroom, officials said Tuesday.

Just goes to show...you can't break the law of the land.

[granny2young]

but you just called me a liar for saying it was not illegal???

[granny2young]

Sky said:

Saying that prayer has been removed from the public school system is a LIE!!! Anyone who tells it repeats the LIE!!!

[Sky]

granny2young said:

Friday, March 11. 2005
Christian Professor fired over reading assignment

His crime? Assigning his class to read "In His Steps."

So tell me g2y, what don't you understand about what the courts have ruled as unconstitutional???

Maybe if I spell it one word at a time? Would that help?

Teachers

in

the

public

domain

(public schools)

are

government

employees.

[Sky]

granny2young said:

but you just called me a liar for saying it was not illegal???

I called you a liar for telling the lie that prayer has been removed from the public school system.

It's not illegal for students to pray. It's illegal for government to LEAD prayer and to teach Christainity at the exclusion of other religions.