SCHOOL UNIFORMS (TPSD)

[d88keyz]

This is actually for some research - study....gather opinions. This is a possibility if things flow a certain way. DO NOT just rant and rave on the fact that you are FOR or AGAINST....tell me why?#nosmileys

[wittzo]

So theoretically if kids wore the same clothes, everyone would be treated the same, no one would be picked on because they didn't wear FUBU or Starter crap or whatever is in style, right? There would be less fighting and a higer morale, theoretially?

I am in favor of dress codes, but not in favor of uniforms. Let's say everyone gets the required shirt, slacks, and socks required. In a few weeks, it will become painfully apparent who can afford more than one shirt and one pair of slacks when poorer kids start wearing worn or dirty clothes repeatedly. That would cause fights and lower morale because the poor kids could be single out and picked on.
This actually happens a lot in bigger schools. There was one school I read about that relaxed their dress code after this happened and started to allow the kids to wear a set of clothes that were a certain color combination. The poor kids started to wear sweat pants and Tshirts that matched the color code, they were still allowed by the letter of the rules if not the spirit. The rich kids wore more expensive designer label exercise suits and stuff. Which was the whole purpose of uniforms to begin with.
It's just like Orwell's "Animal Farm": We are all treated equally, it's just that some are treated more equally than others.

[d88keyz]

......not be picked on? Are you crazy? Even if everyone had the same shirt, pants, eye color, hair style, nose size, ear size, and everything....kids will be kids. Especially "mean" kids will be "mean" kids. We're talking about an environment where it's not as current or obvious with "Johnny" and his Walmart shirt and "Bambi" and her prep-knit shirt. As one article read (as I've researched), "Gang members don't wear plaid" (Plaid uniforms at school).

Look at it this way. Every mother/father who goes and buys clothes for their child to wear to school has the money to buy them (let's ignore those who can't for the moment). If a mom spends $10 on a shirt at WalMart and another mom spends $80 on a shirt at Reeds, YES....visual difference and thus "labels" and "brands". But when the uniform is limited to a specific shirt that costs $10 at Walmart, Sears, JCPenney, Target, or wherever.....then you don't have the labels.

The uniform policy could NOT be as "open" as what you described. It would have to be specific....and enforced.

It would have to be specifically guided and limited to a certain type of shirt/pants(whatever) that could be purchased "here, here and here" and specifically defined.

A mom who says, "I can't afford school uniforms!" has to then prove that she does NOT spend more than $10 on a shirt or pants for their child presently, because that is the average for a uniform top/bottom. It's actually cheaper.

So for those who can't afford a $10 shirt....well......we provide school lunches (free and reduced) now, so there would be a policy for uniforms also.....there would have to be one. Recycling school uniforms....used ones....all of these types of ideas are being carried out in school that have uniforms. Parents, businesses, community donations...this is going on now for kids who can't afford pencils, paper, notebooks....and that can prove they can't. This would have to be carried through to uniforms.

As for saying kids would be wearing "dirty uniforms" to school...I don't think you can hold that one action as the defining way to single out "poorer kids". There will be and are ways to get around even the uniform - as in trying to stand out and STILL be different. You can tell by hair styles...especially in the girls. Some will pamper and fix their hair to show their style / lifestyle / and what they can afford - perms, whatever....also you said yourself what the problem was in the scenario you mentioned - it wasn't the uniform, it was that the school "relaxed their dress code" - you can't do that.

We're talking about something that "helps" level the field. Not saying every kid must be a clone.

But something that has shown to help discipline problems and academic growth (believe it or not).

The Jackson Public School District just started school uniforms DISTRICT WIDE Kindergarten - 12th grade. There is a reason why schools are doing it, and it's not to ONLY stop the "rich kids" and the "poor kids" from being easily labeled.

[wittzo]

From the tone you took with my reply, you aren't really looking for opinions unless they agree with you. I was just mentioning some things I've read over the years in the Tupelo Daily Urinal, Time, Newsweek, USA Today, and various other publications and multimedia.
My source about poor parents and uniforms came from an MPB story last year, they were interviewing kids and faculty from Birmingham, AL(?).

I really don't have a dog in this fight, my kids go to Saltillo Primary and Elementary, but the uniform issue has been mentioned for us, too. It's important for us because my wife and I have 5 children, ages 5-9.

Now, for my rebuttal:

One of the biggest reasons for uniforms that school administrators try to use is the theory that uniforms won't enable bullies to single out someone and pick on them or beat them up because their clothes are the same because the kids aren't wearing designer whatever to get stolen. It's not my theory, it's a theory they use to justify it. I know that kids can be cruel and can single out someone for any perceived sign of weakness.

The thing about "gangs don't wear plaid" is not exactly true, Latino gangs wear different colored plaid flannel shirts, it's the same as the Bloods and Crips' bandanas. Gangs flourish in prisons where the convicts wear uniforms. That's what gang signs and tats are for, among other more subtle signs.

Also, there are gangs in the US military on domestic bases and naval vessels, they wear their issued clothing while they are fighting turf wars and dealing drugs. They have designated turf, just like in bad areas of town. Remember that Marine that "fell" overboard a few years ago? He was thrown overboard because he reported a gang member for dealing drugs. The Bloods and the Crips used to join the military so they could dodge jail sentences. They started up drug rings and sell stolen gov't property and weapons.Here's a local example of that:http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/politics/10574546.htm If uniforms don't stop gangs in the military, how would they stop gangs in schools?

If you buy cheap clothes from Xmart, they fall apart quicker, so you end up buying and spending more.
If you require parents to buy uniforms from a certain place, that certain place is going to take advantage of it and jack the prices up, especially if they provide a school aid program for underpriveleged kids. You see that in college book stores and school supply houses all the time. They figure since it's government grant money?

When I said that kids would wear dirty clothes, I meant that some parents couldn't afford to have 3 sets of uniforms, so the kids would have to wear their shirts and pants for more than one day in a row. If a parent has to buy a uniform, you are doubling their clothing budget unless you're expecting the kid to not change out of their uniform until their bed or bath time in the evening. Also, kids go through growing spurts, they can go through 3 sizes(more or less) in one school year so that means poor kids will have to make do with tight collars, short pants legs, tight waistlines until their parents come up with money to buy three more sets of clothes. If the parents can only afford to buy one set of clothes, they will wash them more, and the clothes will look shabby to the point of falling apart. If they do have more than one set, that means that there will be even more laundry to wash and deal with. You know I know about that.

I don't know how school aid programs work in Tupelo, but I do know how they don't work here. The teachers unofficially ask for the kids to bring their own paper towels and toilet paper because the school budget is so tight. We sent one of our daughters to school with more filler paper and gluesticks because she was low at the middle of the year. A week later, she came home needing even more paper because the teacher distributed all the paper that we and other parents sent to school amongst all the kids in her class. More than half the parents were either too broke or too sorry to send replacement school supplies for their own kids. The school doesn't have the money to help with basic school supplies, there's no way the county can come up with the money to help supply uniforms. If this is most of the parent's attitude toward a 97-cent pack of filler paper, I would hate to see what it would be toward a $15 uniform.

[d88keyz]

...touche.

I'll sit aside now and just watch the votes.

[granny2young]

My oldest daughter went to Tupelo Christian Academy in high school, where uniforms were manditory, so I have lived the life of the school uniform. It was a green plaid skirt with two pletes in the front and could not be bought anywhere. You had to buy the pattern and have someone make it. The school provided you with the exact pattern number and lot number of the material. The shirts had to be a button-up white blouse with buttons on the collar to hold it down. These are a fairity in the girls dept, so most of the girls just wore a regular men's style white shirt. Hose or black knee socks and any brown shoes. There were some girls' parents who went all out and got the Wolloby shoes and the best, so there is going to be some kids that are always going to be "I am a little better than you" no matter what you do.

The school uniform policy was easier in some respects and harder in some repsects so I have mixed opinions. I didn't have to worry about "keeping up with the Jones' so to speak or her not having nice things when school rolled around, but there again she liked clothes, as do most teenagers at that age, and missed a lot. She hated the uniforms and it affected her eduction having to wear one. She was constantly in trouble for being out of uniform. In her second or third year of wearing the uniform she went into a total rebellion against it and gave everyone fits. Just as I would get to work the phone was ringing that she was out of uniform, and I immediately started yelling, but she can't be, I dropped her off 30 minutes ago and she was totally in uniform! (she had her tennis shoes in her backpack or had a pair of shorts on under her skirt. A lot of the girls were doing this to try to make a point that they hated wearing a dress everyday, and couldn't play volleyball or do anything in a skirt. That part I understood, and she was right about her thinking, just not the way she went about it. They hated going to the library or somewhere after school and being seen in public in them. It was a real self-esteem issue for her and she missed several classes because they wouldn't let her in class out of uniform. Just when we thought we had reasoned with her and got it under control, she would do it again. The only way we could keep her in uniform and her actually get to go to class was to get serious. Only one thing worked. My husband would not let her take the uniform off when she got home from school, and she had to wear it on the weekends. She wore that uniform everyday. Once she went a week without messing up she could try the next week as a normal child. It was really a trial when she was in high school, but we were not alone. A lot of the girls had problems and experienced the same thing, but you think the school would budge, not an inch. They just got tougher. At first they wouldn't say too much about "brown" standard panty hose, but even that was not allowed when the girls started being bad.

Not to mention that I had to keep my daughter in two separate wardrobes. She had to have school clothes and after-school/weekend clothes on top of her church clothes, but I question did the uniforms help or achieve anything? Not a thing. I never really saw the benefits to it. Like someone else said, kids are going to be kids, especially mean kids. That's a sad reality.

I am not totally against uniforms in school, but I am not totally for it either.

[taxed]

I don't think school uniforms are the answer to making sure everyone gets treated fairly. First of all, you can still tell who is black or white. Secondly, you can still tell girls from boys (at least I hope so).

Even with school uniforms cliques will evolve. You can't help but be attracted to people that share your beliefs. Atheletics wouldn't change. Wouldn't the same sports stars be better than the average student, even if they have the same clothes as someone else? Would uniforms make a person with dyslexia start reading as well as the average student?

If you're dumb, poor, stinky, rich, smart, or atheletic, the uniform will not alter the friends you choose, or the way a teacher teaches you.

[Gregasauraus Rex]

Amen and pass the biscuits!!!!!!!!!!!!

taxed said:

I don't think school uniforms are the answer to making sure everyone gets treated fairly. First of all, you can still tell who is black or white. Secondly, you can still tell girls from boys (at least I hope so).

Even with school uniforms cliques will evolve. You can't help but be attracted to people that share your beliefs. Atheletics wouldn't change. Wouldn't the same sports stars be better than the average student, even if they have the same clothes as someone else? Would uniforms make a person with dyslexia start reading as well as the average student?

If you're dumb, poor, stinky, rich, smart, or atheletic, the uniform will not alter the friends you choose, or the way a teacher teaches you.

[Sky]

Children are individuals. One of the ways they express themselves is through personal style.

I admit purple hair, mohawks extreme outlandish clothing (goth) is more suited to night wear than school wear.

I also admit I do not want to see boys underwear because their pants are down around their knees instead of on their hips. Belts should be required school attire.

I also do not want to see her belly button ring, her push up bra through her macraméd shirt or her thong because her pants are so low on her hips that when she bends over, the only thing that establishes she does indeed have 2 butt cheeks is the dental floss between them.

His/her tongue rings should either remain in your mouth or your pocket. I don't want you to look like a rabid dog, drooling all over the desk to show it to me. Your eyebrow ring causes me extreme discomfort and pains me to look at, so please wear a bandaid or eyepatch and is that a booger in your nose or another form of body art??


As for your tats.....I am completely impressed that you have the ability to lay still for days at a time while this new art form is carved into your body with permanent ink but I'm not much impressed that you can't pick up an ink pen and complete your class assignments or pass tests so....I know you will understand the big red ink stained F on your paper.

[d88keyz]

Sky, I'm confused. Are you against uniforms, but then list many reasons supporting uniforms and showing how they would solve those problems you listed? ?

[Sky]

d88keyz said:

Sky, I'm confused. Are you against uniforms, but then list many reasons supporting uniforms and showing how they would solve those problems you listed? ?

I detest school uniforms. You won't solve those problems putting them in uniforms either. Kids are going to scar their bodies and treat them they way they choose despite a uniform.

It's like sex...you aren't going to stop kids from doing it either.

When my daughter and I had the issue of the belly button ring...i told her when you turn 18 you can do with your body whatever you want but as long as you live in my house the answer is no.

As for tats, I have 2 small ones on my ankle. My daughter also wanted one. I was 35 years old when I did the first one, she was 16 and wanting one. I said no.

When she moved out on her own she got a small tat on her foot. The belly button ring was her 18th b-day present. It didn't change her as an idividual...I saw it more as being just like everyone else. Now that she recognizes that, the belly ring is gone. The tat is hideable, small and permanent....but it didn't effect her ability to make the deans list in college so, why should I care?

[wittzo]

All the problems she listed would be taken care of with a good dress code as well as uniforms. Some people pay attention to how their kids dress, some need guidelines to follow because they are clueless.
If you send your kids to a private school that's one thing, you're expected to pay more for that type of education. If you can't afford a private school or feel comfortable with public schools, you shouldn't have to add expenses to a strapped budget. Incidentally, my wife went to Starkville Academy and it was like a normal school, except they were more academically focused. No uniforms.

[d88keyz]

wittzo,

"you shouldn't have to add expenses to a strapped budget."
>>>What do you say about those who say it's cheaper, more affordable to buy uniforms than the typical school clothes?

...now, if YOU shop thrifty and do not go for the big labels, well, that's you....but an average school clothes attire costs more than a typical uniform.

Most think they have to buy school clothes AND school uniforms....

?

[wittzo]

We don't buy designer stuff. When we buy new clothes, we buy good stuff on sale. We can get Old Navy stuff on sale as cheap as Walmart brands, McRaes and other shops have good brands as cheap as Walmart clothes and they are sturdier. Even if a set of uniforms only cost $10 each, that's an extra expense with dubious results.

If they had to wear uniforms, we would have them change into regular clothes as soon as they got off the bus so they wouldn't tear them or get them dirty while they are playing.

From granny2young's post, it was her experience that uniforms were unnecessary and she had to buy regular clothes and uniforms. You don't wear your Sunday clothes all day long on Sunday do you? Why would they have to wear their uniforms all day long? If you didn't buy them new clothes, they would be stuck with uniforms and only their pj's to change into after school.

How many sets of clothing do you have? Let's pretend you're starting from scratch like a kid that outgrew his clothes during the summer. I'm going to assume that your growth spurts are done . We'll allow you three pairs of pants or skirts with a matching sweater vest, two short sleeved shirts and two long sleeved shirts, matching socks, and a pair of shoes for the year. According to your posts it won't be necessary to buy any other clothing. Charlie Brown's been wearing the same style shirt for 50 years, how would you like wearing the same style of clothes for 13 years? ;D

[taxed]

Shelby Co. schools are leaving it up to the principals and parents to decide if they want uniforms. The reason several want uniforms? They are tired of students bringing weapons to school in their baggy over-sized clothes.

I'm not in favor of school uniforms, but if it is for a "real", not perceived, safety threat. I could buy into it.